21 Gibson SG Modern tuners

[Ty89m]

Hey all, I picked up a new SG Modern recently, and noticed that it did not arrive with locking tuners even though the product description indicted it should have. Looking further, it appears the 2019 and possibly 2020 models had the locking tuners, but they switched to Grover Mini Rotomatics for the '21 model.

I'm guessing neck dive was one reason they opted to swap to lighter machine heads, but I'd like to swap mine for locking regardless... wondering if anyone here happens to know what locking tuners would be a drop in replacement that wouldn't require drilling etc? Better yet, on the off chance someone has an earlier model Modern with the locking tuners, which ones were they?

I've seen mention that the 502C's that another Modern owner installed required drilling new holes, so those are off the table for the time being.

Anyway, if anyone has suggestions or info it'd be much appreciated!

 

[Decadent Dan]

Specs on both Grovers at Sweetwater show the same diameter.
There’s always a chance of a misprint but that should be verifiable.
The local Kluson Revolution Army will be around here soon to promote those.

 

[papagayo]

Specs on both Grovers at Sweetwater show the same diameter.
There’s always a chance of a misprint but that should be verifiable.
The local Kluson Revolution Army will be around here soon to promote those.

The lightest and the best locking tuners, KLUSON Revolution.

 

[PermissionToLand]

Which holes are you referring to, screw holes or post holes? Any Grover will fit the same post hole, but the screw positions may differ.

 

[3bolt79]

I am disappointed to hear that the tuners weren’t locking. I was going to order the blue one, but I’m not willing to pay 2K+
For one of those without the locking tuners.

I already have the Epiphone Version which has them and phase reversal as well. Perhaps give one of the Epi’s a try. They are only $599.00 new. The pick ups and the bridge are better on the Gibson though.

 

[papagayo]

I am disappointed to hear that the tuners weren’t locking. I was going to order the blue one, but I’m not willing to pay 2K+
For one of those without the locking tuners.

I already have the Epiphone Version which has them and phase reversal as well. Perhaps give one of the Epi’s a try. They are only $599.00 new. The pick ups and the bridge are better on the Gibson though.

Sorry?

 

[Tim D.]

Should be able to locate Locking Grover’s that will drop in with no modifications.

 

[skelt101]

@Ty89m
The normal Rotomatic screw mounting hole won’t line up. It needs to be offset. However, it looks like Grover offers a couple of different options for locking mini Rotomatics. Top-locking, as seen here:

and Roto-grip:

Note how the screw mounting hole is off to the side and not directly under the string post. The Top-Locking may be the way to go, depending on the angle of the stock tuners.

 

[MR D]

Hey all, I picked up a new SG Modern recently, and noticed that it did not arrive with locking tuners even though the product description indicted it should have. Looking further, it appears the 2019 and possibly 2020 models had the locking tuners, but they switched to Grover Mini Rotomatics for the '21 model.

I'm guessing neck dive was one reason they opted to swap to lighter machine heads, but I'd like to swap mine for locking regardless... wondering if anyone here happens to know what locking tuners would be a drop in replacement that wouldn't require drilling etc? Better yet, on the off chance someone has an earlier model Modern with the locking tuners, which ones were they?

I've seen mention that the 502C's that another Modern owner installed required drilling new holes, so those are off the table for the time being.

Anyway, if anyone has suggestions or info it'd be much appreciated!

Someone mentioned that the Kluson 'REVOLUTION' Army would be here shortly...

SO........ Hut 2-3-4, Hut 2-3-4......Company HALT:.......The Kluson REVOLUTIONS Locking Tuning Machines will set you up nicely. I put the 'REVO's on a 2020 SG Standard and a 2019 SG 'Original'/Standard and they are Top-Notch TM's , they are.....the REVO's weigh slightly less than the GIBSON Deluxe (Ping POS) that were stock equipment on the 'Original'/Standard.

IIRC, the REVO's were drop-in replacements...no drilling, no mods, nothing.....

 

[6pack Jon]

Sperzel Ez Mount works for me.

 

[PermissionToLand]

I can't imagine neck dive drove the decision, as these have a Maple cap which makes them more body-heavy than most other SGs. Also Grover does make locking minis. Strange, and disappointing especially because the Mini-Rotomatics have a noticeably lower gear ratio.

 

[Ty89m]

Hey all, appreciate all the replies! I'm referring to the mounting screws on backside of headstock. I delved a bit deeper and found the actual drawings/specs online showing hole spacing etc, and none of the locking Grovers have the same dimensions as the mini-rotomatics that come installed (205 series) - they'd all require drilling new holes and filling existing ones etc. The 505 series were the closest match, but the mounting tab hole is spaced out an extra 2mm or so vs. the mini rotomatics. If I get motivated, I'll fill the existing holes and use the 505 series - or take a peek at some of the Kluson's that are being mentioned.

Shame they opted to swap out the locking tuners for non-locking in these latest models, especially considering the price - though fortunately I grabbed it before the recent Gibson price hike, negotiated a better price, and received a refund due to some small imperfections and the aforementioned lack of locking tuners (as the description at AMS still listed it as having the locking set of Grovers) so all in all I made out pretty well. I have a neck pickup that has a pretty extreme tilt (towards the bridge) that I'll fix when I swap strings next, but beyond that I'm pretty pleased with the guitar - it's my first SG and I'm happy to have it in the collection!

 

[3bolt79]

AMS now has mini rotomatics listed in the specs. Who knows maybe I will just get a Standard, or another Epiphone.

 

[MR D]

Hey all, appreciate all the replies! I'm referring to the mounting screws on backside of headstock. I delved a bit deeper and found the actual drawings/specs online showing hole spacing etc, and none of the locking Grovers have the same dimensions as the mini-rotomatics that come installed (205 series) - they'd all require drilling new holes and filling existing ones etc. The 505 series were the closest match, but the mounting tab hole is spaced out an extra 2mm or so vs. the mini rotomatics. If I get motivated, I'll fill the existing holes and use the 505 series - or take a peek at some of the Kluson's that are being mentioned.

Shame they opted to swap out the locking tuners for non-locking in these latest models, especially considering the price - though fortunately I grabbed it before the recent Gibson price hike, negotiated a better price, and received a refund due to some small imperfections and the aforementioned lack of locking tuners (as the description at AMS still listed it as having the locking set of Grovers) so all in all I made out pretty well. I have a neck pickup that has a pretty extreme tilt (towards the bridge) that I'll fix when I swap strings next, but beyond that I'm pretty pleased with the guitar - it's my first SG and I'm happy to have it in the collection!

I just noticed that you mentioned that the SG Modern has Non-Locking Grover Mini's...that said, IDK if the Kluson 'Revolutions' would be drop-in replacements then, yes? The GIBSON Deluxe TM's that were replaced by the 'Revo's were the 10MM hole 'Collared' TM's (new Style) rather than the 8MM hole Push-in Gibson Deluxe TM's AKA 'Old Style'.......

FWIW, IMO those Mini-Grovers are best Non-Locking TM's I've had on any Gibson electric. Both guitars I have them on(Explorer & Firebird T's) have Doozy LT-II tremolo's and the Mini-G Non-Locking TM's hold tune just as good as the 'Revolutions' that are on my SG 'Original' w/Maestro . They are Rock solid tuning wise...and I had thought about changing them too, but realized they're just as good as the 'Revo's, so I just left 'em on.

 

[Col Mustard]

I'll say something nobody else has yet:

Locking tuners are not necessary. Just use the "Self Locking" method of installing
your strings and get the same effect with tuners that won't weigh your headstock
down.

Just google "self locking method of installing guitar strings" and learn how to do
this, and you can do it on any guitar.

Anyway these colleagues above have answered your question well,
so I maintain that you should study the self locking method and keep
your guitar as issued. Every guitarist should know this method.

Check it out, and make up your own mind.

 

[MR D]

I'll say something nobody else has yet:

Locking tuners are not necessary. Just use the "Self Locking" method of installing
your strings and get the same effect with tuners that won't weigh your headstock
down.

Just google "self locking method of installing guitar strings" and learn how to do
this, and you can do it on any guitar.

Anyway these colleagues above have answered your question well,
so I maintain that you should study the self locking method and keep
your guitar as issued. Every guitarist should know this method.

Check it out, and make up your own mind.

Good point....I dont know any players that dont do the self locking thang.

 

[papagayo]

Schaller double ring vs Kluson Deluxe vs Kluson Revolution.

Those tuners use the same holes than Gibson Deluxe, Kluson Revolution are the lightest, 1:19 high ratio and very smooth knobs.
Chrome finish on the picture.

 

[FireInTheHo]

Hey all, I picked up a new SG Modern recently, and noticed that it did not arrive with locking tuners even though the product description indicted it should have. Looking further, it appears the 2019 and possibly 2020 models had the locking tuners, but they switched to Grover Mini Rotomatics for the '21 model.

I'm guessing neck dive was one reason they opted to swap to lighter machine heads, but I'd like to swap mine for locking regardless... wondering if anyone here happens to know what locking tuners would be a drop in replacement that wouldn't require drilling etc? Better yet, on the off chance someone has an earlier model Modern with the locking tuners, which ones were they?

I've seen mention that the 502C's that another Modern owner installed required drilling new holes, so those are off the table for the time being.

Anyway, if anyone has suggestions or info it'd be much appreciated!

Just FYI, I just picked up a 2022 Gibson SG modern, now they have this awesome black case for these guitar. like you the only thing really bugs me is the tuners are not locking tuners. So I have done my research and emailed Grover.

Here is the reply “Thank you for your email. The Grover 505s do not have the same specification for the 205 Series. Unfortunately, there is not a drop-in locking replacement for the 205s.”

this is where I really pissed off at Gibson. i understand there are some out there not care about locking tuner and want to help the neck diving issue by going regular tuners. But seriously why pick a model without a way to upgrade? Just do what the Les Paul does? Better yet, if neck diving is such a concern, have a compartment at the switch area where people can add counter weight to counter neck weight. Can even sell these weight set as optional extra to make profit.

 

[skelt101]

Just FYI, I just picked up a 2022 Gibson SG modern, now they have this awesome black case for these guitar. like you the only thing really bugs me is the tuners are not locking tuners. So I have done my research and emailed Grover.

Here is the reply “Thank you for your email. The Grover 505s do not have the same specification for the 205 Series. Unfortunately, there is not a drop-in locking replacement for the 205s.”

this is where I really pissed off at Gibson. i understand there are some out there not care about locking tuner and want to help the neck diving issue by going regular tuners. But seriously why pick a model without a way to upgrade? Just do what the Les Paul does? Better yet, if neck diving is such a concern, have a compartment at the switch area where people can add counter weight to counter neck weight. Can even sell these weight set as optional extra to make profit.

Re: a replacement for the Grover 205, you might look into the Schaller M6 180 locking. The dimensions look really close, but they are unfortunately tough to find. As far as counter weights, I have attached these to the inside of the control cavity cover:
Counterweights

 

[Decadent Dan]

Grover 406C?

Grover 406C Mini Locking Rotomatic 3x3 Tuning Machines 18:1 | Reverb

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