Why I’m returning my new ‘61 Reissue SG

[Juan Tumani]

I love the assumptions that there are new Gibsons in nearby stores. It must be nice.
You just walk in and try them out.
As if GIbson dealers are everywhere.
Gibson screwed the little stores a long time ago.

I certainly get what you're saying. When I started playing in the late 80s/early 90s. I lived near a small town in the country. There were guitars stores within 30 minutes of me but those small stores couldn't afford to have a wall of Gibsons to try out. Often there would just be one Gibson Les Paul Standard in stock. If I wanted to try more models I would have to drive into the bigger cities 90 minutes (minimum) away.

Well, if you're going to drop a load of cash on something why not invest some time too?

 

[Bettyboo]

I love the assumptions that there are new Gibsons in nearby stores. It must be nice.
You just walk in and try them out.
As if GIbson dealers are everywhere.
Gibson screwed the little stores a long time ago.

Buying a $2000 product that's very tactile, maybe lasts me a lifetime, I'd travel a bit, plan a day/weekend away.

I traveled 139kms by bus then overland train then an underground to buy an SG standard; I didn't like the feel in my hand, so tried various other guitars, but couldn't find one I liked. Then I saw an SG junior, picked it up, felt great, played it, plugged it in, played it again, then loved it. Bought it - turned out to be the best guitar I've ever owned.

Cost me about $75 to get to the shop and back, took an entire day. It was worth it.

 

[Juan Tumani]

Buying a $2000 product that's very tactile, maybe lasts me a lifetime, I'd travel a bit, plan a day/weekend away.

I traveled 139kms by bus then overland train then an underground to buy an SG standard; I didn't like the feel in my hand, so tried various other guitars, but couldn't find one I liked. Then I saw an SG junior, picked it up, felt great, played it, plugged it in, played it again, then loved it. Bought it - turned out to be the best guitar I've ever owned.

Cost me about $75 to get to the shop and back, took an entire day. It was worth it.

Lol. I'm so used to there being nothing I'm interested in, in my area. I drove 150 miles each way to buy a used American Deluxe Strat.

I had a buyer for a guitar I was selling drive 8 hrs each way. Him and his buddy made a weekend of it.

In the well over 300 guitars I've owned I've only bought without trying maybe 5-6 times in my life. 2 of those times worked out well long term.

If you're not in a position to try before you buy, you're also not in a position to be super picky about what you get. IMO.

 

[pancake81]

I have not purchased a Gibson for about 14 years, so I am not exactly Mr “Current Affairs”. But of the 3 SG’s I have, I think they are damn near perfect. There was a few things when I look back, a dry fret board here, and a loose screw on a case there, but it has been so long you kind of forget those little things.

I hate hearing people being unsatisfied, because I think Gibson has the ability to make a damn fine instrument. I can’t speak to what goes on over there, but one has to hope the get it dialled in.

If there are any flaws or dings, I assume I did them at this point.

 

[Go Nigel Go]

Never gamble more than you can afford to loose is a platitude I choose to live by. If I am going to spend a couple grand or more on a guitar I plan to live with and love till I am gone for good, I would certainly make the effort to go find it for myself. I understand sometimes it is not practical, but it is also not very practical to ship multiple instruments back and forth, even with a liberal return policy from the seller. I consider the variability of instruments within a given year and model a net positive in that there is probably an instrument you will love out there no matter who you are or what your preferences are, but it also means you may not find it on the first, or even the 50th try. How you choose to go about doing your search is up to you, but you need to understand going into it that it may not be easy unless you are very lucky on the first try. I have handled thousands of instruments since I started playing in 1983, but only purchased a little over a dozen. I still have them all, but often I didn't even know what I was looking for until I found it. Finding a "perfect" guitar is a rare and wonderful event. Not everyone is going to agree on what that is however, I don't take it personally if something doesn't suit me, I just leave it for the next guy or gal.

 

[DrBGood]

It's not for everybody to easily get to a music store.

 

[PermissionToLand]

Or maybe just get something of good quality that I like and enjoy with a lot of my hard earned money. Sorry you can’t explain away poor craftsmanship with your big brain.

Yes, and a Stradivarius is "poorly crafted" because a modern machine-built violin will have tighter tolerances.

 

[jdubsya]

Lefties like me have no choice. My local GC has one left-handed Mexican Telecaster that's been there over a year.
I have just learned to shop places with good return policies.

 

[Lxndrlk]

Yes, and a Stradivarius is "poorly crafted" because a modern machine-built violin will have tighter tolerances.

You’re a fucking asshole

 

[smitty_p]

Yes, and a Stradivarius is "poorly crafted" because a modern machine-built violin will have tighter tolerances.

To be honest, I would prefer a modern, machine-built instrument made to tighter tolerances. The greater likelihood of consistency from one piece to another is a positive thing to me. I don't see any virtue in having to hunt for "that one" that is built just right.

Of course, CNC construction doesn't guarantee a perfect instrument, but it does help to minimize the variability in construction from one to another.

Speaking of Stradivarius, independent, double-blind tests have demonstrated that the newer, more modern violins actually project better and people actually tend to prefer the sound of the newer models. This is not, in any way, suggesting that a Stradivarius is "poorly crafted" - absolutely not! But, there is a bit of romanticism that has grown up around them which doesn't necessarily seem to translate to independent testing.

Here's an interesting article in New Scientist. Now, to be fair, this article isn't juxtaposing a Strad with "machine-built". It just compares Stradivarius with modern violins, but doesn't address what, if any, differences in construction methodologies there may be.

Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test

Could you tell a new violin from a vintage Stradivarius? Top-notch soloists couldn't in a blind test, and they even preferred new instruments

www.newscientist.com

 

[toobzilla]

It's not for everybody to easily get to a music store.

music stores?.. they still have those?

 

[Juan Tumani]

I don't see any virtue in having to hunt for "that one" that is built just right.

As mentioned earlier, anything other than "try before you buy" is for those without specific preferences. So if you're the kind of person who buys shoes expecting your foot will eventually confirm to whatever shoe you bought, then that's all well and fine. I prefer to buy shoes that fit my feet.

In the guitar world I stopped giving a damn about most guitars as tolerances got tighter. It used to be that if you happened upon a store that had more than one example of a guitar you were interested in you could go down the line and find the one that suited you best. Now if there's 5 guitars and you don't like the first one don't bother with the other 4. It's insane to believe that every player will like the exact same guitar equally and silly to think that if you'd prefer something slightly different you have to try find another model completely.

In this thread I've mentioned two of my favorite guitars of all time. My Red 61 and my Lucille. Since buying them I've had the opportunity to play a handful of other examples of each model. It's clear to me that the ones I own must be at some edge of specs or possibly complete flukes as I've absolutely hated all the other Lucilles and all the other 61s were good but not great.

I actually program/operate a CNC for a living and even I have mixed feelings about their use in guitar making.

 

[smitty_p]

As mentioned earlier, anything other than "try before you buy" is for those without specific preferences.

Oh, I do have some pretty specific preferences when I consider buying a guitar! And, I do "try before I buy." The thing I'm questioning is not the idea that one model of guitar will be different from another model. When I'm test-driving a new guitar, I pay attention to quite a few aspects of the design, ergonomics, quality, and sound.

But, within guitars of the same make and model, I think there should be consistency, at least as much as is possible given the fact that it is usually wood from which they are made. I don't want to have to run around town trying various examples of the exact same make and model to find the one that is better. I want there to be manufacturing consistency from unit to unit. That's my point.

I actually program/operate a CNC for a living and even I have mixed feelings about their use in guitar making.

I don't. I think it is a fantastic idea.

 

[MR D]

Just got a 61 SG from Sweetwater. Unlike many, I like the ergonomics of the SG. However, I may be done with the SG. Here are my experiences with the new 61 SG:

The bad:

• dead spot on 11th fret G string. My other SG had the same problem. I’ve never encountered another guitar that’s so prone to dead spots. I think it’s due to the long neck but I’m not 100% sure. I didn’t mess with the truss rod so I can’t say if it’s a truss rod fix or anything inherent to the guitar. Even so, the guitar went through Sweetwater’s 55 point inspection and I left the guitar in the case 24 hours prior to opening.

• Quality control issue - the neck is slightly wider than the fretboard which creates a “lip” or a noticeable indent that you can feel with your hand. This is an ongoing issue. I had a Gibson DC tribute with the same problem. The same model was featured in a Trogly video and he mentioned the same issue.

• super tiny frets. I know this is likely done to be faithful to the original but the original also had unpotted pickups. So, Gibson is ok with making some practical changes. Does anyone actually like their frets this tiny these days? Actual medium jumbos would be preferable to the average player.

• The nitro is sticky and smells weird. Although, those problems are supposed to go away with time so not a huge deal.

•The pickup covers look good but they really just muddy things up. My epiphone sg with uncovered burstbuckers sounds noticeably more clear and open.

• Rosewood these days is looking pretty bad. The fretboard also didn’t feel great when playing. At the same time, I didn’t put any fretboard cleaner/lemon oil on it. That may have fixed the issue.

The good:

• it looks amazing even though the red SG has been done to death and is a bit cliche at this point. No guitars look or sound as good as Gibsons imo.

• Great tone. I would prefer the nickel covers off but still a great sound.

• Great case. Best looking case I’ve ever had.

• Nice neck profile. Not too big or thin.

Honestly, if it weren’t for the quality control flaw, I’d be tempted to work with it and see if I could get it up to snuff.

Maybe a used custom shop SG is the way to go.

Send it back and get another one......the new SG 'MODERN' needs pickups, unless you can handle the 490's, and the rest is CHERRIES ! I got a 2021 and its lighter than every SG I ever owned, and that had me a lil upset, its 6 Lbs (minus about an ounce) ...but the weight might be a good thing later on when I am infirmed (?) but the only thing I had to do was change the 490's.....after that, no complaints what-so-ever ! I put a 61R in the neck and a '57 in the bridge and itssa a li'l BAD-A$$ now !.....and the best part: NO SLIM TAPER NECK either !!!

I just could not go $2500 or whatever the price was for the 'SG' Standard '61 when it was gonna cost as much or more than I paid for a Les Paul STANDARD in 2017 , NO WAY...so I went w/the 'SG' Standard MODERN (on sale at Guitar Center's yearly Moron-a-thon for $1250 ALL-IN) and took the Pickup's out of a 2015 SG Special that I just hated (G-Farce, Wide Fret-Board...OOOOH MY EFFIN' G !) and was selling.....

IT WORKED OUT WELL, the li'l BAD-A$$ is now my #1 every day beater....and it is a li'l BAD-A$$ ! BEEFY NECK, and I kid you not, Sir ! The pickup's made the biggest of differences ! I mean, OMG, I just CRUNGE @ 490's,no definition is the problem, IMO...... EE GAD MON !

 

[Juan Tumani]

Oh, I do have some pretty specific preferences when I consider buying a guitar! And, I do "try before I buy." The thing I'm questioning is not the idea that one model of guitar will be different from another model. When I'm test-driving a new guitar, I pay attention to quite a few aspects of the design, ergonomics, quality, and sound.

But, within guitars of the same make and model, I think there should be consistency, at least as much as is possible given the fact that it is usually wood from which they are made. I don't want to have to run around town trying various examples of the exact same make and model to find the one that is better. I want there to be manufacturing consistency from unit to unit. That's my point.



I don't. I think it is a fantastic idea.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'll use my Lucille as example again. Before I bought mine (used) I actually didn't know there was a BB King signature guitar. When I pulled it off the wall I simply had to have it. It was easily the nicest playing guitar I'd ever played up until that point. A few years after I bought mine there was new one in the store. I hated it. A little while later there was a new one in Cherry. I hated it too. Tried a few more throughout the years and hated them all. I thought maybe they changed the specs on the newer ones. Then I had a chance to play an older one and hated it too.

I've owned many many many guitars and have been doing my own set ups, repairs and mods for over 30 years. I most definately know the difference between a guitar that isn't set up to my liking vs a neck that has a different profile.

If I had come across one of the other Lucilles first I would just think it was neat that you could own one.

 

[smitty_p]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

It's all good!

After all...there's no right and wrong to this stuff. It's just guitars. We can actually have different perspectives and still get along!

 

[MR D]

Sorry bud but I'm roasting you for this one. Somebody who doesn't even know what a truss rod does is questioning a 100 year old company's expertise?

Wood comes from a living organism and therefore is never 100% consistent and predictable. If it's even possible to build a guitar with no dead spots, it would require extensive testing of each piece of wood to determine its resonant frequencies and continued testing as it is shaped and sanded because that will also change it. Unless you're paying a luthier $10,000 you have unreasonable expectations.

Quote from John Suhr of Suhr guitars:

"All guitars will have a dead spot some place unless they are made out of concrete.

The more alive the guitar is the more dead spots you will have."

The bump around the binding is a result of the fact that the paint is thicker where the color coats are. The binding is masked off while it's being painted. This is common, especially with high quality finishes that are thinner than your typical Epiphone polyurethane armor coating.

Gibson uses standard Dunlop medium-jumbo frets on everything, always has.

All nitro is sticky and smells weird. It's nitro.

Pickup covers do not influence tone.

Every guitar you've ever heard on all your favorite records had a dead spot. Jimi Hendrix was not rejecting guitars because there was a slight bump between the binding and neck.

and now YOU get ROASTED....YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT JIMI HENDRIX EVER REJECTED, (OR WHY) AS FAR AS GUITARS GO UNLESS YOUR NAME IS MITCH MITCHELL and you have managed to come back from the dead ! OR you were at the BAND's rehearsals/practice sessions...AND I AM BETTING YOU ARE NEITHER.....SO......you just can not know that , MR I DONT KNOW IT ALL (BUT I'LL NEVER ADMIT IT!) ! !

FYI: When you pick fights and insult people, sometimes they lurk in the weeds and wait........and wait...and wait....you are the only person who has insulted me on this forum in over 12 years, under different user names, its always you !!! YOU !! YOU !! I used to go away for months and then come back under a different name but then I realized it was the same Douchbag insulting me, every fuckin time ! .......and that douchbag was/is YOU ! every fuckin time !

I will neither insult you (some people consider 'DOUCHBAG' a compliment, I bet you do too !!) nor stoop to your condescending level, but I will call you on your BULL-**** !!! and that comment above about what you think HENDRIX SAID OR DID, is a big steamy load of it !

 

[MR D]

Buying a $2000 product that's very tactile, maybe lasts me a lifetime, I'd travel a bit, plan a day/weekend away.

I traveled 139kms by bus then overland train then an underground to buy an SG standard; I didn't like the feel in my hand, so tried various other guitars, but couldn't find one I liked. Then I saw an SG junior, picked it up, felt great, played it, plugged it in, played it again, then loved it. Bought it - turned out to be the best guitar I've ever owned.

Cost me about $75 to get to the shop and back, took an entire day. It was worth it.

You are an INSPIRATION ! and I kno YOU kno: How To Do It !!!

........ I also learned a long time ago that if I really wanted something I would go to just about any (and I do mean ANY !) lengths to get it..........SOOOO...........it is one VERY good reason I am glad IDK where a lot of people live.

BUT N E Way:
There are only 2 or 3 guitars that I would really be willing to go 'ALL-IN' for, so that is a very good thing as well....u kno, '59 Lester or 335, '61 Les Paul, '64 FIREBIRD.......and.....Personally, IDK anyone who has one of the guitars....

 

[Gary Gretsch]

Send it back and get another one......the new SG 'MODERN' needs pickups, unless you can handle the 490's, and the rest is CHERRIES ! I got a 2021 and its lighter than every SG I ever owned, and that had me a lil upset, its 6 Lbs (minus about an ounce) ...but the weight might be a good thing later on when I am infirmed (?) but the only thing I had to do was change the 490's.....after that, no complaints what-so-ever ! I put a 61R in the neck and a '57 in the bridge and itssa a li'l BAD-A$$ now !.....and the best part: NO SLIM TAPER NECK either !!!

I just could not go $2500 or whatever the price was for the 'SG' Standard '61 when it was gonna cost as much or more than I paid for a Les Paul STANDARD in 2017 , NO WAY...so I went w/the 'SG' Standard MODERN (on sale at Guitar Center's yearly Moron-a-thon for $1250 ALL-IN) and took the Pickup's out of a 2015 SG Special that I just hated (G-Farce, Wide Fret-Board...OOOOH MY EFFIN' G !) and was selling.....

IT WORKED OUT WELL, the li'l BAD-A$$ is now my #1 every day beater....and it is a li'l BAD-A$$ ! BEEFY NECK, and I kid you not, Sir ! The pickup's made the biggest of differences ! I mean, OMG, I just CRUNGE @ 490's,no definition is the problem, IMO...... EE GAD MON !

For me I would not even have had to do that much. I like the 490 R and T pickups.

 

[PermissionToLand]

To be honest, I would prefer a modern, machine-built instrument made to tighter tolerances. The greater likelihood of consistency from one piece to another is a positive thing to me. I don't see any virtue in having to hunt for "that one" that is built just right.

Of course, CNC construction doesn't guarantee a perfect instrument, but it does help to minimize the variability in construction from one to another.

Speaking of Stradivarius, independent, double-blind tests have demonstrated that the newer, more modern violins actually project better and people actually tend to prefer the sound of the newer models. This is not, in any way, suggesting that a Stradivarius is "poorly crafted" - absolutely not! But, there is a bit of romanticism that has grown up around them which doesn't necessarily seem to translate to independent testing.

Here's an interesting article in New Scientist. Now, to be fair, this article isn't juxtaposing a Strad with "machine-built". It just compares Stradivarius with modern violins, but doesn't address what, if any, differences in construction methodologies there may be.

Pro violinists fail to spot Stradivarius in blind test

Could you tell a new violin from a vintage Stradivarius? Top-notch soloists couldn't in a blind test, and they even preferred new instruments

www.newscientist.com

Hey, if that's what you're looking for, there's nothing wrong with that.

I find the little human errors to give a guitar charm. Unless it's negatively impacting the guitar's functionality, it's not an issue for me.

I definitely believe what you're saying about violins. I don't subscribe to any romanticism of the past or "old wood" mythicism. It would make sense that we've figured out how to build things better as humanity advances technologically.